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	<title>Comments on: Why was The Great Global Warming Swindle so persuasive?</title>
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	<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/</link>
	<description>Charting the disconnect between climate science and action</description>
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		<title>By: MDH</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-39621</link>
		<dc:creator>MDH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-39621</guid>
		<description>I think that both sides will bend the story for their own aims.  In the UK people happily state that any scientist that denies climate change must be in the pockets of big oil - yet the interests of other scientists and the billions invested are never questioned?

More importantly, the question I am always left with, is why don&#039;t we spend some of this money adapting to the changes the world may bring?  I think it would be more cost effective and cost efficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that both sides will bend the story for their own aims.  In the UK people happily state that any scientist that denies climate change must be in the pockets of big oil &#8211; yet the interests of other scientists and the billions invested are never questioned?</p>
<p>More importantly, the question I am always left with, is why don&#8217;t we spend some of this money adapting to the changes the world may bring?  I think it would be more cost effective and cost efficient.</p>
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		<title>By: Axel Llizo</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-32754</link>
		<dc:creator>Axel Llizo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-32754</guid>
		<description>George:
I live in a country specially affected by global warming, if such a thing can be said. Islands on the Caribbean are on the path of most hurricanes. Although I have no evidence to support this, the mean number of hurricanes per year and their mean intensity seem to have increased, specially this last decade, because of the increased mean water temperature. Besides, such a raise of water level as predicted if climate keeps changing would leave most of my country under the sea.  Nevertheless, I am one of the people who desperately want to believe in “Swindle”. 
I find your reply very interesting and convincing, but I have some doubts. 
1. As “Swindle” states, H2O is the major greenhouse gas, rather than CO2, but no one seems worried about that. In fact, most of “CO2 clean” energy sources produce mainly H2O; and they are referred as “green technologies”: I am very intrigued about such contradiction. 
2. “Swindle” states that anthropogenic CO2 is not, by far, the main source of this gas. Is that true? If so, why are humans referred as the main cause of the increased CO2 levels? 
But don’t get me wrong: I am not defending Denial. As I said before, I desperately want “Swindle” to be right, because in such a case, things could be naturally reversible, something that I really doubt if we humans are the cause of global warming.
I hope you can enlighten me. 
Tank you very much.
Axel Llizo
PS. My mother language is Spanish, so perhaps this piece of writing will have mistakes and odd phrases. I hope you will forgive them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George:<br />
I live in a country specially affected by global warming, if such a thing can be said. Islands on the Caribbean are on the path of most hurricanes. Although I have no evidence to support this, the mean number of hurricanes per year and their mean intensity seem to have increased, specially this last decade, because of the increased mean water temperature. Besides, such a raise of water level as predicted if climate keeps changing would leave most of my country under the sea.  Nevertheless, I am one of the people who desperately want to believe in “Swindle”.<br />
I find your reply very interesting and convincing, but I have some doubts.<br />
1. As “Swindle” states, H2O is the major greenhouse gas, rather than CO2, but no one seems worried about that. In fact, most of “CO2 clean” energy sources produce mainly H2O; and they are referred as “green technologies”: I am very intrigued about such contradiction.<br />
2. “Swindle” states that anthropogenic CO2 is not, by far, the main source of this gas. Is that true? If so, why are humans referred as the main cause of the increased CO2 levels?<br />
But don’t get me wrong: I am not defending Denial. As I said before, I desperately want “Swindle” to be right, because in such a case, things could be naturally reversible, something that I really doubt if we humans are the cause of global warming.<br />
I hope you can enlighten me.<br />
Tank you very much.<br />
Axel Llizo<br />
PS. My mother language is Spanish, so perhaps this piece of writing will have mistakes and odd phrases. I hope you will forgive them.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Kinsey</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-29508</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Kinsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-29508</guid>
		<description>Everyone appears to have missed out &quot;change&quot;, as in people don&#039;t like things changing in their lives - unless they choose to change and / or see advantages in live style changes.
On the subject of CO2, hands up everyone who wants to pay more for their energy supplies. Yep, no one. So if reducing CO2 emissions means equipment lasts longer and is more energy efficient, how many will complain now?
This is one possible key - getting people to accept longer lasting and cheaper to run products should not be difficult.
Of course there are many problems (higher cost of better products, road transport, air transport, CO2 clean electricity generation) that will have to be solved.
Humans will adapt. Even without CO2 restrictions, oil will be become more expensive to pump out of the ground.
People need to see a bright clear future...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone appears to have missed out &#8220;change&#8221;, as in people don&#8217;t like things changing in their lives &#8211; unless they choose to change and / or see advantages in live style changes.<br />
On the subject of CO2, hands up everyone who wants to pay more for their energy supplies. Yep, no one. So if reducing CO2 emissions means equipment lasts longer and is more energy efficient, how many will complain now?<br />
This is one possible key &#8211; getting people to accept longer lasting and cheaper to run products should not be difficult.<br />
Of course there are many problems (higher cost of better products, road transport, air transport, CO2 clean electricity generation) that will have to be solved.<br />
Humans will adapt. Even without CO2 restrictions, oil will be become more expensive to pump out of the ground.<br />
People need to see a bright clear future&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Haha! Wrist slapping for Channel 4 courtesy of climate sceptic &#8216;documentary&#8217; &#171; Babylonian Times by Corporate Watch</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-28011</link>
		<dc:creator>Haha! Wrist slapping for Channel 4 courtesy of climate sceptic &#8216;documentary&#8217; &#171; Babylonian Times by Corporate Watch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-28011</guid>
		<description>[...] went further and argued that it worryingly supported &#8216;climate denial&#8217; writing in his blog: &#8216;Among the lies it peddled was the notion that environmentalists and scientists have a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] went further and argued that it worryingly supported &#8216;climate denial&#8217; writing in his blog: &#8216;Among the lies it peddled was the notion that environmentalists and scientists have a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-25535</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-25535</guid>
		<description>So Caspar henderson (7) says &quot;I’ll go out on a limb and say that the propaganda-culture battle on this issue has largely been won, and that denial is a dwindling problem.&quot;  I think the limb is breaking off.  See today&#039;s MORI poll in the Observer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Caspar henderson (7) says &#8220;I’ll go out on a limb and say that the propaganda-culture battle on this issue has largely been won, and that denial is a dwindling problem.&#8221;  I think the limb is breaking off.  See today&#8217;s MORI poll in the Observer.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-22444</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-22444</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a foolish notion that people are, on the whole, decent.  Rather a strange idea given that time and again (for example WW2 Germany, Ruwanda, Serbia) history shows us that the majority of them will support any atrocity, no matter how extreme, if they think they will gain from it.  To deceive even themselves that they are doing nothing wrong they simply construct a fantasy that explains away their guilt.  Thus Albert Speer apparently knew nothing of the holocaust despite being a member of Hitler&#039;s inner circle.

And so, today, those who wish to preserve their rich, polluting lifestyles willingly clutch at the fantasy being offered by the climate change deniers: they do not know that climate change is happening. And when a future generation asks them why they behaved as they did, they will say they were lied to by that same climate change denial lobby, ignoring the fact that those lies could only be effective if they themselves chose to ignore the people on the other side of the debate who spoke the truth.

Nobody was being &#039;persuaded&#039;, they were simply being given the excuse they were already looking for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a foolish notion that people are, on the whole, decent.  Rather a strange idea given that time and again (for example WW2 Germany, Ruwanda, Serbia) history shows us that the majority of them will support any atrocity, no matter how extreme, if they think they will gain from it.  To deceive even themselves that they are doing nothing wrong they simply construct a fantasy that explains away their guilt.  Thus Albert Speer apparently knew nothing of the holocaust despite being a member of Hitler&#8217;s inner circle.</p>
<p>And so, today, those who wish to preserve their rich, polluting lifestyles willingly clutch at the fantasy being offered by the climate change deniers: they do not know that climate change is happening. And when a future generation asks them why they behaved as they did, they will say they were lied to by that same climate change denial lobby, ignoring the fact that those lies could only be effective if they themselves chose to ignore the people on the other side of the debate who spoke the truth.</p>
<p>Nobody was being &#8216;persuaded&#8217;, they were simply being given the excuse they were already looking for.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-10189</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-10189</guid>
		<description>i have read lots of reviews saying how the program is all wrong, what parts if any were right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have read lots of reviews saying how the program is all wrong, what parts if any were right?</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-8318</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-8318</guid>
		<description>Swindle was shown in Australia last week and was followed by a panel discussion that included and IPCC scientist and several skeptics. While the debate was interesing enough, it was the audience who were most fascinating. 

The studio audience of maybe 80 people was infiltrated by a right wing group that managed to ask maybe half of the questions raised. One made some point that was so obscure nobody on the panel could understand the question (something along the lines of &quot;what about carbon 14&quot; as this apparently discredits all the GW theories) but several others made a more interesting claim. They suggested that the whole environmental movement was really started by a Nazi sympathiser, so all of us who believe this GW stuff are either deliberately or unwittingly promoting a eugenics / population control agenda that is designed to &quot;wipe out Africa&quot;. I looked up their web site and found a further theory, that Inconvenient Truth was really somehow connected to a plot to avoid having to &quot;impeach&quot; Vice President Cheyney.

I don&#039;t think they won any popular support. Their presence was noted in the local media but not particularly sympathetically. Their web site claimed that they had &quot;turned the debate around&quot; and send shock waves through the Australian community but only one of their comments or questions was actually taken seriously by the moderator or the panel, and that one was a panel member who when asked if he supported world population control said &quot;that&#039;s your comment, not mine&quot;.

It fits well with your assertion that the facts are almost irrelevant to what people choose to believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Swindle was shown in Australia last week and was followed by a panel discussion that included and IPCC scientist and several skeptics. While the debate was interesing enough, it was the audience who were most fascinating. </p>
<p>The studio audience of maybe 80 people was infiltrated by a right wing group that managed to ask maybe half of the questions raised. One made some point that was so obscure nobody on the panel could understand the question (something along the lines of &#8220;what about carbon 14&#8243; as this apparently discredits all the GW theories) but several others made a more interesting claim. They suggested that the whole environmental movement was really started by a Nazi sympathiser, so all of us who believe this GW stuff are either deliberately or unwittingly promoting a eugenics / population control agenda that is designed to &#8220;wipe out Africa&#8221;. I looked up their web site and found a further theory, that Inconvenient Truth was really somehow connected to a plot to avoid having to &#8220;impeach&#8221; Vice President Cheyney.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think they won any popular support. Their presence was noted in the local media but not particularly sympathetically. Their web site claimed that they had &#8220;turned the debate around&#8221; and send shock waves through the Australian community but only one of their comments or questions was actually taken seriously by the moderator or the panel, and that one was a panel member who when asked if he supported world population control said &#8220;that&#8217;s your comment, not mine&#8221;.</p>
<p>It fits well with your assertion that the facts are almost irrelevant to what people choose to believe.</p>
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		<title>By: David Foskey</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-8054</link>
		<dc:creator>David Foskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 10:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-8054</guid>
		<description>George

Swindle will be shown on the Australian Broadcasting Commission&#039;s (ABC) channel on July 12. The only review I&#039;ve seen so far is either supportive of its views or satire, but I fear the former. (The review was in The Age which today carried an article by you.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George</p>
<p>Swindle will be shown on the Australian Broadcasting Commission&#8217;s (ABC) channel on July 12. The only review I&#8217;ve seen so far is either supportive of its views or satire, but I fear the former. (The review was in The Age which today carried an article by you.)</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Dumper</title>
		<link>http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/comment-page-1/#comment-7982</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Dumper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global-warming-swindle-so-persuasive/#comment-7982</guid>
		<description>This is a late addition to this piece, and so is unlikely to be picked up.

I am not a climate scientist, but I am a social scientist, so I will try to keep my observations in the areas of subjects that I have a greater understanding.

Let me be clear here. I am a complete believer in climate change. There is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of scientists on this subject are correct and that man&#039;s activity on the planet is causing that change.

What I am interested in is the grey areas of behaviour change. I think that one of the problems with this great article is that it reduces the behaviour patterns into black and white. But it is not so clear as that, an example being my wife. Like me she is environmentally aware, happily is a member of an organic box scheme, wanted to have a house within walking /cycling distance of work, takes the train whenever she needs to go on business meetings, has installed better insulation, top of the range low energy central heating etc. etc. 

But foreign holidays - she loves &#039;em. And despite all the evidence to the contrary - and her general belief and agreement that we should be minimising our carbon footprint - she has a blindspot. She will happily quote denial figures on foreign flights. Because she doesn&#039;t want to give it up. Travel is her passion and addiction. Deep down she knows that she is lying to herself about this aspect. It doesn&#039;t fit in with her generally rational and well considered approach to minimising her impact on the planet. But like any addict (mine&#039;s tobacco for instance - so I know the lies you can tell yourself) she will wriggle and squirm and indulge in all kinds of cognitive dissonance to keep this aspect out of changing the way she lives.

This is, in my mind the greatest issue. Denial is no longer the major battle. Offering solutions that are more appealing than the present is the problem. The problem is for many people, the green alternative is presented as such a joyless, hair-shirted world, where everything fun is presented as damaging and destructive. 

My submission to the way forward is to say that, everytime that I have seen someone converted to organic food is not through guilt, or concern, or environmental awareness - but taste. When people smile and say &#039;yum!&#039; is when they want to convert. The same goes for everything else. Of course we still need the push of global destruction behind people - but surely we also need some pull too - a vision of a world that is vibrant and exciting and thrilling - or behaviour will never change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a late addition to this piece, and so is unlikely to be picked up.</p>
<p>I am not a climate scientist, but I am a social scientist, so I will try to keep my observations in the areas of subjects that I have a greater understanding.</p>
<p>Let me be clear here. I am a complete believer in climate change. There is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of scientists on this subject are correct and that man&#8217;s activity on the planet is causing that change.</p>
<p>What I am interested in is the grey areas of behaviour change. I think that one of the problems with this great article is that it reduces the behaviour patterns into black and white. But it is not so clear as that, an example being my wife. Like me she is environmentally aware, happily is a member of an organic box scheme, wanted to have a house within walking /cycling distance of work, takes the train whenever she needs to go on business meetings, has installed better insulation, top of the range low energy central heating etc. etc. </p>
<p>But foreign holidays &#8211; she loves &#8216;em. And despite all the evidence to the contrary &#8211; and her general belief and agreement that we should be minimising our carbon footprint &#8211; she has a blindspot. She will happily quote denial figures on foreign flights. Because she doesn&#8217;t want to give it up. Travel is her passion and addiction. Deep down she knows that she is lying to herself about this aspect. It doesn&#8217;t fit in with her generally rational and well considered approach to minimising her impact on the planet. But like any addict (mine&#8217;s tobacco for instance &#8211; so I know the lies you can tell yourself) she will wriggle and squirm and indulge in all kinds of cognitive dissonance to keep this aspect out of changing the way she lives.</p>
<p>This is, in my mind the greatest issue. Denial is no longer the major battle. Offering solutions that are more appealing than the present is the problem. The problem is for many people, the green alternative is presented as such a joyless, hair-shirted world, where everything fun is presented as damaging and destructive. </p>
<p>My submission to the way forward is to say that, everytime that I have seen someone converted to organic food is not through guilt, or concern, or environmental awareness &#8211; but taste. When people smile and say &#8216;yum!&#8217; is when they want to convert. The same goes for everything else. Of course we still need the push of global destruction behind people &#8211; but surely we also need some pull too &#8211; a vision of a world that is vibrant and exciting and thrilling &#8211; or behaviour will never change.</p>
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